Verses showing God's Sovereignty, salvific work, and
man's nature
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God's Sovereignty
- Top
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God's ability to do
and accomplish His will
- Top
-- God does whatever He pleases.
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Gen. 18:14, "Is
anything too difficult for the Lord? At the appointed time I will return
to you, at this time next year, and Sarah shall have a son."
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Psalm 115:3, "But
our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases."
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Psalm 135:6,
"Whatever the Lord pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas
and in all deeps."
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Isaiah 46:10,
"Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things
which have not been done, saying, ‘My purpose will be established, and
I
will accomplish all My good pleasure’;"
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Jer. 32:27,
"Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh; is anything too difficult
for Me?"
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Dan. 4:35, “And
all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, but He does
according to His will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of
earth; and no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, ‘What hast Thou
done?’"
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Matt. 19:26, "And
looking upon them Jesus said to them, "With
men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
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Luke 1:37,
"For nothing will be impossible with God."
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Chance occurrence -
Top
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Prov. 16:33,
“The lot is cast into the lap, but its every
decision is from the Lord.”
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Natural realm - sun, rain, birds, grass,
hair. - Top
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Matt. 5:45,
“in order that you may be sons of
your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on
the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the
unrighteous.”
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Matt. 6:26, “Look
at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, neither do
they reap, nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father
feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?”
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Matt. 6:30, “But
if God so arrays the grass of the field, which is alive
today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much
more do so for you, O men of little faith?”
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Matt. 10:29, “Are
not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of
them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.”
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Matt. 10:30, “But
the very hairs of your head are all numbered.”
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Human History - nations, times, boundaries,
people, - Top
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Acts 17:26,
“and He made from one, every nation of
mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined
their appointed times, and the boundaries of their
habitation,”
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Psalm 47:1-4,
“O Clap your hands, all peoples; Shout to God
with the voice of joy. 2For the
Lord Most High is to be feared, a great King over all the earth.
3He
subdues peoples under us, and nations under our feet. 4Hchooses
our inheritance for us, The glory of Jacob whom He loves.”
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Psalm 33:10,
“The Lord nullifies the counsel of the
nations; He frustrates the plans of the peoples.”
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Human
Birth - God grants offspring and descendents -
Top
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Gen. 4:25,
“And Adam had relations with his wife again;
and she gave birth to a son, and named him Seth, for, she said, “God
has appointed me another offspring in place of Abel; for Cain
killed him.”
-
Deut. 10:22,
“Your fathers went down to Egypt seventy
persons in all, and now the Lord your God has made you as
numerous as the stars of heaven.”
- Ruth 4:13,
“So Boaz took Ruth, and she became his wife,
and he went in to her. And the Lord enabled her to conceive,
and she gave birth to a son.”
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Human plans and accidents.
- Top
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Exodus 21:12,
“He who strikes a man so that he dies shall
surely be put to death. 13“But if he did not lie in wait for him,
but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint you
a place to which he may flee.”
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James 4:13-15,
“Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow,
we shall go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and
engage in business and make a profit.” 14Yet you do not know what
your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears
for a little while and then vanishes away. 15Instead, you ought to
say, “If the Lord wills, we shall live and also do this or that.”
- Good and ill
from God - Top
- Lam. 3:37-38,
"Who is there who speaks and it comes to pass, unless the Lord has
commanded it? 38Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that both good and ill go forth?"
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Health and prosperity
- Top
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Exodus 4:11, "And the
Lord said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or
deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?"
-
Deut. 32:39, "See now
that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to
death and give life. I have wounded, and it is I who heal; And there is
no one who can deliver from My hand."
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1 Sam. 2:6-7, “The
Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to Sheol and raises up.
7The Lord makes poor and rich; He brings low, He also exalts."
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Ecc. 7:13-17,
"Consider the work of God, For who is able to straighten what He has
bent? 14In the day of prosperity be happy, But in the day of adversity
consider— God has made the one as well as the other So that man may not
discover anything that will be after him."
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Isaiah 45:5-7, “I
am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will
gird you, though you have not known Me; 6That men may know
from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides
Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, 7The One forming
light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I
am the Lord who does all these."
- Lam. 3:37-38,
"Who is there who speaks and it comes to pass, unless the Lord has
commanded it? 38Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that both good and ill go forth?"
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Amos 3:6-7, "If a
trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble? If a calamity
occurs in a city has not the Lord done it?"
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What God desires; What God
arranges
- Top
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What God desires
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1 Tim. 2:3-4, "This
is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved
and to come to the knowledge of the
truth,"
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2 Pet. 3:9, "The Lord is not slow
about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."
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Luke 14:23,
"And
the master said to the slave, ‘Go out into the highways and along the
hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled."
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Heb. 3:7, "Therefore, just as the
Holy Spirit says, “Today if you hear His voice, 8Do not
harden your hearts as when they provoked Me, as in the day of trial
in the wilderness."
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What God arranges
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Rom. 11:8, "just as it is written, 'God
gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes to see not and ears to hear not, down
to this very day.'"
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Mark 4:11-12, "And He was saying to them,
"To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom
of God; but those who are outside get everything in parables,
12in order that while seeing, they
may see and not perceive; and while hearing, they may hear and not
understand lest they return and be forgiven."
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2 Thess. 2:11, "And for this reason
God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might
believe what is false."
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Rom. 9:18, "So then He has mercy
on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."
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Exodus 4:21,
"And the Lord said to Moses, 'When you go back to Egypt see that you
perform before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power;
but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go."
- See also
Exodus 7:3;
9:12;
10:1;
11:10;
14:4 where God hardens
Pharaoh's heart.
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Exodus 8:32, "But
Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the
people go."
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Exodus 14:17, "And as for Me, behold, I will
harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they will go in after
them; and I will be honored through Pharaoh and all his army, through
his chariots and his horsemen."
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Deut. 2:30,
"But Sihon king of Heshbon was not willing for us to pass through his
land; for the Lord your God hardened his spirit and made his heart
obstinate, in order to deliver him into your hand, as he is today."
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2 Chron. 25:20,
"But Amaziah would not listen, for it was from God, that He might
deliver them into the hand of Joash because they had sought the gods of
Edom."
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Isaiah 6:10, "Render the
hearts of this people insensitive, their ears dull, and their eyes dim,
lest they see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with
their hearts, and return and be healed."
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Rom. 9:18, "So then
He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires."
- Human nature-
Total Depravity
- Top
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Jer. 17:9,
"The heart is more deceitful than all
else and is desperately sick; who can understand it?"
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Mark 7:21-23,
"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed
the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries,
22deeds of coveting and
wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and
foolishness. 23"All these
evil things proceed from within and defile the man."
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John 3:19,
"And this is the judgment, that the
light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the
light; for their deeds were evil."
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John 8:34, "Jesus
answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you,
everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
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Rom. 3:10-12, "as
it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11There
is none who understands. There is none who seeks for God; 12All
have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who
does good, There is not even one.”
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Rom. 5:6, "For while
we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly."
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Rom. 6:20, "For
when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness."
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Rom. 7:18, "For I
know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the
wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not."
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Rom. 7:23, "but I
see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the
law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in
my members."
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1 Cor. 2:14, "But a
natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they
are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are
spiritually appraised."
- 1 Cor. 2:1-5, Paul did not come by the power of human
wisdom, but the power of the Holy Spirit.
- 1 Cor. 2:6-9, Paul speaks God’s wisdom which the world does
not understand.
- 1 Cor. 2:10, The Spirit of God reveals the sacred and
spiritual things of God.
- 1 Cor. 2:11-12, Christians have not received the spirit of
the world, but the Spirit of God, which is why the Christians know the
things freely given from God.
- 1 Cor. 2:13-14, "which things we also speak, not in
words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit,
combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. 14But a
natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they
are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are
spiritually appraised."
- Therefore, 1 Cor. 2:14 is not saying that the natural man, the
unregenerate person, cannot understand God's wisdom, it is also saying
that they cannot understand because they do not have the Spirit of God.
This means that the unsaved cannot understand spiritual things because
they do not have the Spirit of God.
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Eph. 2:1, "And you were dead
in your trespasses and sins."
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Eph. 2:3, "Among
whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our
flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by
nature the children of wrath, even as others."
- In this verse "nature" is the Greek phusei. It is the
dative case (indirect object). This means that the text is not
saying that we are by nature children of wrath because we sin.
It is saying that we are by nature children of wrath.
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1 Tim. 1:9,
"Realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for
those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for
the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for
murderers."
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Human freedom
- Top
--
Libertarian freedom is the freedom to be able
to equally choose good and bad in any given situation.
-- Compatibilist
freedom is the freedom to act in accordance with our nature.
- Deut. 30:19, "I call heaven and earth to witness against
you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and
the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your
descendants."
- Josh. 24:15, "And if it is disagreeable in your sight to
serve the Lord, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether
the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the
gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my
house, we will serve the Lord."
God grants and works salvation in us
- Top
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John 1:12-13, "But as many as
received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even
to those who believe in His name, 13who were born not of
blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of
God."
- Being born again occurs not by the will of man, but of God.
- Acts 13:48, "And when the Gentiles
heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord;
and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."
-
Eph. 1:5, "He predestined us
to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the
kind intention of His will."
-
Eph. 1:11, "also we have obtained an
inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works
all things after the counsel of His will."
- Predestine is the Greek proorizo, it
means...
- "to predetermine, decide beforehand; in the NT
of God decreeing from eternity; to foreordain, appoint beforehand"
(Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak
Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995).
- "to destine or decree beforehand;
foreordain," (Webster's New World Dictionary, 1986, p. 1121)
- "To predetermine or foreordain;
to appoint or ordain beforehand by an unchangeable purpose," (Webster's
Dictionary, 1828.)
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Phil. 1:29, "For to you it has been
granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to
suffer for His sake."
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1 Thess. 5:9,
"For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation
through our Lord Jesus Christ."
- "destined" is the Greek word "tithemei."
It means, "to set, put, place; to make; to set, fix establish"
(Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak
Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995).
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2 Thess. 2:13-14, "But we should always give
thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has
chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by
the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14And it was for this He
called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord
Jesus Christ."
-
John 10:25-26, "Jesus answered them,
"I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s
name, these bear witness of Me. 26"But
you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. 27"My
sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
-
John 10:11,
"I am the good shepherd; the good
shepherd lays down His life for the sheep."
- John 6:44, "No one can
come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise
him up on the last day."
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John 6:65, "And He was saying,
"For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless
it has been granted him from the Father."
- If no one can come to God without the Father granting it to him,
then the person is powerless to come to God of his own free will.
-
Acts 16:14,
"And a certain woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of
purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened
her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul."
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Rom. 12:3, "For through the grace given to
me I say to every man among you not to think more highly of himself than
he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has
allotted to each a measure of faith."
-
1 Pet. 1:3,
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according
to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living
hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."
-
James 1:18, "In the
exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of
truth, so that we might be, as it were, the first fruits among His
creatures."
God Predestines
- Top
- Predestination
- Greek Proorizo, Strongs # 4309. "to
predetermine, decide beforehand; in the NT of God decreeing from
eternity, to foreordain, appoint beforehand."
- Proorizo, "which the NT uses only with God as
subject, expresses the thought of appointing a situation for a person,
or a person for a situation." (The New Bible Dictionary, Wheaton,
Illinois: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., 1962.)
- Predestinate, "To predetermine or foreordain;
to appoint or ordain beforehand by an unchangeable purpose," (Websters
Dictionary, 1828 edition.)
- Predestine, "To destine or decree beforehand;
foreordain," (Websters New World Dictionary, 1986 edition).
-
Acts 4:27-28, "For truly in this
city there were gathered together against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom
Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the
Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28to do whatever Thy hand
and Thy purpose predestined to occur."
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Rom. 8:29-30, "For whom He
foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His
Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30and
whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He
also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."
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1 Cor. 2:6-7, "Yet we do
speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this
age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; 7but
we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom, which God
predestined before the ages to our glory."
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Eph. 1:4-5, "just as He chose us in
Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and
blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption
as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention
of His will."
-
Eph. 1:11, "also we have obtained
an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who
works all things after the counsel of His will."
God
elects individuals - Top
- election is
the Greek "eklektos." It is rendered as "elect" and "chosen."
Strongs #1588.
-
Matt. 22:14, "for
many are called [kletos], but few are chosen
[eklektos]."
- Kletos, "called, invited."
-
Matt. 22:24, "For
false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs
and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect
[eklektos]."
-
Matt. 22:31, "And
He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather
together His elect [eklektos]
from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."
-
Luke 18:7, "now
shall not God bring about justice for His elect
[eklektos],
who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?"
-
Rom. 8:33, "Who will bring a charge against
God’s elect
[eklektos]?
God is the one who justifies;"
-
Romans 16:13, "Greet
Rufus, a choice
[eklektos]
man in the Lord, also his mother and mine."
-
Col. 3:12, "And so, as those who have been
chosen
[eklektos]
of God, holy and beloved, put on a
heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;"
-
1 Tim. 5:21, "I solemnly charge you in the
presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen
[eklektos]
angels, to maintain these principles
without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality."
-
2 John 1, "The elder to the chosen
[eklektos]
lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and
not only I, but also all who know the truth,"
-
3 John 13, "The children of your
chosen
[eklektos]
sister greet you."
God's sovereignty over people's hearts and lives
-
God hardens
people's hearts - Top
-
Exodus 4:21, "And the Lord
said to Moses, 'When you go back to Egypt see that you perform before
Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power; but I will
harden his heart so that he will not let the people go."
- See also
Exodus 7:3;
9:12;
10:1;
11:10;
14:4 where God hardens
Pharaoh's heart.
-
Exodus 8:32, "But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time
also, and he did not let the people go."
-
Exodus 14:17, "And as for Me, behold, I will
harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they will go in after
them; and I will be honored through Pharaoh and all his army, through
his chariots and his horsemen."
-
Deut. 2:30, "But Sihon king of Heshbon was not
willing for us to pass through his land; for the Lord your God
hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, in order to deliver
him into your hand, as he is today."
-
2 Chron. 25:20, "But Amaziah would not listen, for it
was from God, that He might deliver them into the hand of Joash
because they had sought the gods of Edom."
-
Isaiah 6:10, "Render the hearts of this people
insensitive, their ears dull, and their eyes dim, lest they see with
their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and
return and be healed."
-
Rom. 9:18, "So then He has mercy on whom He
desires, and He hardens whom He desires."
-
God softens peoples' hearts
- Top
-
Deut. 29:4, "Yet to this day
the Lord
has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear."
-
Jer. 24:7, "‘And I will give them a heart to
know Me, for I am the Lord; and they will be My people, and I will be
their God, for they will return to Me with their whole heart."
-
The Lord directs people's paths
- Top
-
Jer. 10:23,
“I know, O Lord, that a man’s way
is not in himself; nor is it in a man who walks to direct his
steps.”
-
Prov. 16:9,
“The mind of man plans his way,
but the Lord directs his steps.
-
Gen. 45:8, “Now, therefore, it
was not you who sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father
to Pharaoh and lord of all his household and ruler over
all the land of Egypt.” – (Joseph in Egypt
– His brothers, therefore, were not free to kill Joseph)
-
Isaiah 44:28,
“It is I who says of Cyrus, ‘He is My shepherd! and he will
perform all My desire.’ And he declares of Jerusalem, ‘She
will be built,’ and of the temple, ‘Your foundation will be
laid.’”
-
1 Sam. 10:9, “Then it
happened when he turned his back to leave Samuel, God changed his heart; and
all those signs came about on that day.”
-
Prov. 21:1, “The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the
Lord. He turns it wherever He wishes.”
-
Psalm 105:24-251, "And He caused His
people to be very fruitful, and made them stronger than their
adversaries. 25He turned their heart to hate His people,
to deal craftily with His servants.
-
John 1:12-13,
“But as many as received Him, to
them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those
who believe in His name, 13who were
born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will
of man, but of God.”
-
Dan. 1:9,
“Now God granted Daniel favor and
compassion in the sight of the commander of the officials.”
-
Rev. 17:17, "For God has put it
in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose,
and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God should
be fulfilled."
- Does God affect human choices?
- Top
-
1 Pet. 1:3, "Blessed
be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His
great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the
resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."
Other
- Top
- Miscellaneous Verses
-
Prov. 16:4, "The Lord
has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of
evil."
-
Rom. 9:22-23, "What if God,
although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known,
endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
23And He did so in order that He might make known the riches
of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for
glory."
- God Foreknows
- Top
- Proginosko,
-
Acts 2:38, "this Man, delivered up
by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a
cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death."
-
1 Pet. 1:1-2, "Peter, an apostle of
Jesus Christ, to those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout
Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen 2according
to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the
Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood:
May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure."
-
1 Pet. 1:20, "For He [Christ] was
foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these
last times for the sake of you."
- KJV says, "Who verily was foreordained
before the .... "
- If God looked into the future to see what
choice would be made, then who did He foreknow the death of Christ?
Was it simply something that God looked to see if it would happen or
not? If so, then God is not sovereign.
-
If God predestines us because he
looks into the future to see if we will believe, then... -
Top
- Then isn't He predestining us because He is
seeing in us something that is motivating Him to save us? If our
faith motivates God to save us, then it must have some merit in God's
eyes, otherwise it would not motivate God to save us."
- Then God is looking into the future in order to
learn. This would violate His attribute of omniscience.
In other words, if God is looking into the future to see our choices,
then this means God is constrained by time (otherwise He would not have
to look into the future). The truth is that God is omniscient and
knows all things all the time. He does not have to look anywhere,
anytime to discover anything. To say that He looks into the future
to see who would pick Him and then He predestines them is to say that
God essentially is learning and adapting to the knowledge He gains in
His future looking.
- Questions
- Top
- Is God's will thwarted
by human free will?
- Is God's will limited
by human free will?
- Can God fail at
anything He intends to do?
- "God does not intend to bring about everything He values,
but he never fails to bring about what He intends." (John Frame)
- Is the human will somehow independent of all
other influences so as to be truly free?
- Is the human will somehow independent of human
motivations?
- If God does not
influence a person's will, so as to allow him total freedom of will,
then how is it that God draws the person? In other words, the
drawing of a person is an influence upon the will.
- Does the human will have the ability to
overcome various influences so as to make a neutral, objective decision?
- If God foreknows what someone will do in the
future, is that person then free to change his mind or not?
- Is the "free-willer" using the doctrine of
complete freedom of will as a paradigm into which God's character and
actions must fit?
Logic
- Top
- God creates the person,
the will of the person, and the body of the person since God is the one
who forms us in the womb (Isaiah 44:2,24; Ecc. 11:5),
etc.
- Since God knows all things, a person's free
will is not outside God's knowledge.
- God puts that person in a particular place and
time.
Return to the
Calvinist Corner
Copyright by Matthew J. Slick, B.A., M. Div., 1998-2006
I welcome your comments via E-mail at matt@carm.org
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